tv Lockup Wabash MSNBC October 18, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
and tomorrow. so let's see what we can do about that... remodel. motorcycle. [ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. they take a banker. make a my financial priorities appointment today. because when people talk, great things happen. >> give me the respect and courtesy of a person. >> boyhood friends struggle to father their kids from behind prison walls. but one cut off from visits with
his son is on a razor's edge. >> i hurt a lot. i seek revenge for that. >> a convicted murderer seeks legitimacy for a religion that prison officials suspect is a front for white supremacists gangs and we've turned the cameras over to the inmates to share personal thoughts of themselves. >> wabash extended stay. welcome to the belly of the b e base. >> you're in prison every day. >> what wants to be locked in a room with another man for 19
hours a day. three and a half hours that we come out is to go get the worst food you've ever ate in your life. i don't know how they call it food. >> every day things people take for granted we cherish right now. >> wabash correctional facility, a maximum prison. the inmate bop las vegas of nearly 2200 outnumbers local residents four to one. many of indiana's most violent offenders are sent here. >> the proximate breakdown of inmates who have committed murder, voluntary manslaughter, battery, assault is approximately 50% of your population. >> they are housed in single cells 23 hours a day in the e
cured confinement unit. few however are more notorious than leonard. he's spent 16 years here. >> he's still escorted everywhere he goes. he'll be cuffed behind the back. his recreation is solitary. his activity are kind of limited. it's all by himself. that unit is designed by people like him. everybody in there knows his history. >> the most infamous chapter of his history occurred 17 years earlier. that's when he stabbed a corrections officer to death. >> we approached him from the front, stabbed him one time in the front chest area which actually broke a rib. the sound of it brought in another guard and when he got there he actually observed the
stab to the back. the officer said he didn't know if he was going to make it or not and that mcquay was the one that stabbed him. he was sentenced to another 27 years. he still claims his innocence. >> i maintain my balance, my mental health. >> mcquay will soon reach a milestone. his time in confinement is about to surpass the years he spent free in the outside world. >> you know sometimes you can be in an environment like this and a person begins to see you as a mad dog, like every chance you get you're going to lose control or you're going to slap on
somebody and that's not me. >> periodically mcquay files requests to be moved back to general population where he would have considerably more privileges. >> i still believe that leonard mcquay has an ulterior motive. >> the person he needs to win over is the case manager, beverly gill more. >> we all get along with leonard. he is very, very likable, very charismatic, just so friendly but he's so overly friendly and so fake. it's not for real. >> since coming to wabash mcquay has, involved in several incidents that have enforced his violent reputation. >> a few years ago he asked for a basketball and when he went to hand the basketball he came
through the door and pushed his way through and began assaulting a couple of the staff members. and several staff responded along with myself, there was about six of us finally to restrain him and get him down on the ground and get him in cuffs. >> sometimes emotional lichl can push you over the edge. sometimes you can regret the things you do, especially when you know that one action can result in a lifetime of misery. >> but mcquay says he's had a spiritual awakening since converting to islam. >> i'm a changed man. >> mcquay is not the only inmate at wabash valley who say he's been through a spiritual transformation since coming to prison. marcus murray is a self-pro claimed priest of a little known
pagan religion. >> it is the prechristian religion of northern europeans. >> hail all yea holy gods. >> it's proven popular among primarily white inmates prison wide. murray says he discovered it shortly before coming to wabash 121 years earlier. he's serving a 60-year sentence for beating another man to death and says that this has helped him come to grips with the murder. his pendant and his many tattoos are symbols of his fate.
>> vieking age is a large portion of it. >> but prison officials have begun to see this as something else, a front for white supremacist gangs. ahave been able to hold services at some prisons but wabash has banned the meetings. >> it's been quite disruptive, even at the other facilities. >> murray denies any link to these white supremacist meetings. >> it does not pro mote gang mentality or any criminal elements at all. it's a religion based on virtue and knowledge. >> the ban also hasn't stopped murray from recruiting new members. his latest williams jones jr.
>> he's been teaching me what the hammer means and what the different gods and goddesses are. >> jones who also denies being a white smem cyst came to wabash three years ago at age 18. he was sentenced to six year for burglary. >> i was hanging out with the wrong people, strung out on drugs and broke into a house and took a tv and a bunch of other little items like a tattoo gun, took them and sold them for drugs. >> the house he robbed was his father's. >> when my dad called the police he was like i strongly believe it was my son junior. it killed him to do it. >> jones says he would like to rebuild a relationship with his father and will soon have the chance. he leaves prison on patrol in one week. >> why would you enjoy the weather, man? you get to enjoy all of that
when you go home next week. >> next thursday. >> he wants to be influenced because he's still being molded as a man. you know, he's still a kid and he's turning into somebody. >> delivering papers. no. that's just temporary. >> okay. time glad you have aspirations. >> what the hell does that mean. coming up -- >> i got a hundred dollar bill tattooed on my penis. >> and later. >> i'm asking you to open your heart. >> leonard mcquay tries to rehab his image. >> i treat him with respect but i do not trust him. [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah.
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out there that really needs me. and spend a lot of time away from me. can't say i've always been the best for them. as a matter of fact, their lives probably would have been a lot better without me in it. >> the wabash correctional facility is isolated in south western, indiana. some of the states most violent inmates are housed here and they've been known to hurt each other. james stone have been in prison for the past 25 years for attempted murder and he's had more than a few scrapes in that town. while some inmates have been known to create knives out of toothbrushes or anything else, several years ago he devised a more knew yeek weapon. >> the cheese graders was
leather work gloves that i had, i took pads off the welding gloves, put varnish, dipped them in the varnish, put the pads on top of the varnish, let it dry, dripped back sb down in the varnish, then went over to the drill shop with the metal curly cues are. i dipped down in them so it looked like a metal bush. then let them dry then i ran them through the top layer of the varnish in the can. let them dry and once they dry they last forever. every time you hit someone it's like taking chaus through a cheese grater. it's not pretty. it's like making slaw. >> among this population are two young cellies.
one boyhood friends on the outside they now rely on each other for survival on the inside. >> we met at different places we hung out when we was, what -- >> 13, 14 maybe, at the latest. maybe 12. >> robby is serving six years for armed robbery and is no stranger to prison. >> i'll be 23 in a couple of days and with patrol violations all together i've come to prison five times. but if i keep coming eventually it's going to be for a long time and i don't want that. i really don't have nobody out there. i wish i had some place to go. i wish i could get on my feet and get a job and live life productively. i don't want to keep coming here. this ain't for me. >> you hear me? you already know. >> unlike his boyhood friend who's been in and out of prison
five times, this is bradley's first time behind the walls but as a juvenile he was twice placed on house arrest. now he's serving 16 years for burglary and criminal gang activity. >> when i heard my sentence, i was crying. at 18 getting 16 years it seemed like forever. it seemed like, oh, man, i ain't never getting out. we got a good relationship, talk to each other crazy, smack each other around when nobody is looking. >> it doesn't matter. it's all right afterwards. >> even though they're from the same hometown, their lives in prison would make it seem like they're from different sides of the tracks. >> his tv is an older model and my tv is one of the flat screens they just started selling.
it's expensive but it's a bigger picture. everything in here is ours. you know what i mean? it's not -- whatever is mine is his, whatever is his is mine and that's the way we live, you know what i mean? >> thanks to support from his family, napier has more money to spend on commissary socks. once a week he loads up for him and robby. >> he's nearly half of everything. he needs to carry half of everything. >> robby! damn [ bleep ]. >> why would you just grab that? >> all the commissary goes in one box, we both eat out of it. he doesn't have a lot of the things going for him that i have so it's hard for him to stay on the right path. >> one thing mcal nally has is
an abundance of tattoos. >> that's my mom's name in the heart, then i got my south side done, my neighborhood where i'm from. over here is money bags, some naked girls, that's all clowns up there. >> don't you got a hundred dollar bill. >> i do got a hundred dollar bill tattoo. >> where is that at? >> that's crazy, bro. i got a hundred dollar bill tattoo on my penis. >> what do you tell the girls about that, man. >> that's money to blow. >> the imagery on his body only tells part of the story. it's the pictures that he keeps tucked away in a photo album that tell the rust. he hasn't seen his son
three-year-old robby the third in two years. he's had a contentious relationship with his moth. >> me and i her got into it when i came back to prison i ain't seen him at all. it's before 26 months. >> napier is only the father of a young boy. >> this is wh they sent me for my birthday. there's another thing that he color on and put stickers on. it's my world, my life. >> their relationship to their sons are marked by a have and have not quality. unlike robby, napier enjoys reg visits with his child. >> i wouldn't be able to go through what he's going through without seeing my son. >> there ain't no reasoning behind 26 months. >> that's just how sit. we're in two different places. >> while robby longs for a visit with his son, marcus murray has been playing father figure and
teaching his religious believes to william jones jr. jones is only two days away from leaving prison on patrol and murray says that he hopes the religion will help keep him from returning to prison. >> when you realize you've got bills to pay and somebody comes over and they offer the opportunity for you to make a little bit of easy cash, go rob something, things go bad, things break bad. people get involved, people that weren't supposed to be there come out with shot guns and you get killed. you end up being another justin, another heart break i have to deal with. >> i've been through this before. i've had friends of mine that i've taken under my wing, youngsters that get out there before i do and they get out there and mess up. in fact i lost a friend six years ago, justin, he got shot
by a police officer in indianapolis. >> i will send you a card every month that you're out there but if you come back, i'll send a blanket party. >> i'm not coming back. >> thank you. >> coming up, leonard mcquay gets a job and a chance to prove himself mpls that was to the dislike of some of my supervisors. they thought that i had lost my mind. >> and later, markus murray lashes out. >> you mae us look like a bunch of [ bleep ]. >> damn it. re a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman #3 ] to show my love. ♪ [ woman #4 ] because life needs flavor. ♪ [ woman #5 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson.
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cell of leonard mquay. >> five times a day it's mandatory for muslims all over the world five times a day. >> mcquay is serving 60 years for the murder of a kreks office at another state prison 16 years earlier. while mcquay says his ka ran has helped him grow spiritually, the other books have helped him grow physically. >> every day i do me some curls. i do these, i do shrugs, what they call shrugs, do these, back arms like this, like this.
probably about 55 or 60 pounds. >> mcquay has spent years trying to earn his way back into general population but his history as a violent offender continues to haunt him. >> i engaged in what i considered to be the emotional response to being disrespected. >> i was warned when i came into this job regarding offender leonard mcquay. leonard is very smart and clever. he can talk a great talk. >> though caseworker beverly gill more has raised sirius questions about him, her goal is to give them an opportunity to pro themselves so she rekently made a controversial decision. after mcquay successfully completed a program, she gave him a job in the housing unit. >> i did make him a sanitation
worker. that was to the dislike of some of my supervisors. they thought that i had lost my mind. i would never, they say, let him get out of his cell. i said, let's give him a chance. i talked to leonard, i said one time, buddy, you pass a scrap of paper to another offender you will be without your job. and we are watching him probably more closely than we are any -- at least this mrs. gill mohr is because i've got something to prove i think he can do it. >> change is gauged by behavior. if you are actually changing your behave must change and i believe my behavior has changed. >> mcquay hopes that a positive job performance will help him win his transfer and his fate will be determined at his next review which is less than a week away. >> the bottom line is i still somebody who deserves respect, to be treated like a human being and if it's given to me, i'll
. hey there. here's what's happening. florida congressman bill young one of the longest serving members of the house died friday. he spent 43 years in congress. he was 28. we've learned that this won't be ruled out next week. and the firefighter who ran over and killed a survivor of the asiana plane crash will not be charge. let's get you back to "lockup."
due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. isolated in rural south western indiana, the wabash valley correctional facility is more than 100 miles from a major urban center but it has plenty of reminders of the urban problems behind its walls >> it has approximately 43 different gangs and approximately 400 different gang members. that doesn't reflect all of our suspected members. those are all confirmed members and we have approximately somewhere between 200 to 300 suspected gang members at this facility. >> most of the gangs are divided among racial liebs. but the majority of the gangs here belong to white supremacist gangs. prison officials suspect that a growing religious group might be
a front for white supremacist gangs. markus murray, one of the leaders at wabash, denies that. >> there has never been anything in my stud studies that says one race is more come innocent over another nor one religion dominant over another. we believe that our religion is fine, your religion is fine. >> guy rat cliff who has been practicing it for several year here says there is one group that is not welcome. >> if we found out somebody was a child molester, he would be banned from the community. he cannot participate. it's a by law. you cannot be a sex offender and be in this religion. >> are the cliff who uses another accepted pro none yags of the group's name also defended the fact that some
members have swastikas tattooed on their bodies. >> the swastika was around long for adolf hitler came around. i don't have nothing against him but he took something from my religion which was a sun wheel and made it part of his party. it goes back to ancient sooifl lie sayincivilization. >> while rat cliff defended the religion, his comments disturbed murray who let him know how much when he returned to his cell. >> you made us look like a bunch of [ bleep ]. >> dam it. i tried to talk about this with you, i swear i did. i'm sorry markus. i [ bleep ] up. i'm sorry. i apologize. try not to get mad at me, man. >> it's hard not to, man.
>> later we told murray we recorded his engs change with rat cliff and asked him to explain it. >> i was a little mad at him. he didn't mean any harm. he just, you know, ignorant of the conduction of leadership roles, you know, and i think now that he has seen, you know, that it upset me and knows that it's not really how we do business, i think he's changed his point of view. >> murray hopes to also change the point of view of prison officials. he will soon have a hearing with the prisoned administratives to appeal his ban of the religion. robby faces a different challenge. he not only feels isolated from his young son but from his boyhood friend who happens to be
his celly. >> my cell meat, i love the dude, been knowing him for years even before we came to prison but i got my problems, that i ain't seen my son in two years and [ bleep ] he gets to trip in and act like he knows what i feel and stressing hard when he don't see his son for a week. he gets visits every week. everything that's possible to get in here he's got it and i'm in here [ bleep ] up. >> robby is serving six years for armed robbery wears his frustration in prison ink. >> that says venn glance because aye. hurt a lot and i seek revenge for that. i had a lot of animosity built up when i got it. i'm hoping i can let things go for my sake and my son's sake. it ain't worth coming back to prison over. >> he points to another tattoo
as the source of his frustration. >> the mother of my child. i'm kind of mad at her that he's hold my son from me. >> but that could be changing. a recent letter and her submission of a visit request are indications that she's planning to bring his son to visit. >> this isn't the first time that she's said it and then all of the sudden he falls off again. last time i seen him he couldn't walk and talk. i can't wait to see him. >> while he clings to the hope that the visit will take place, his cell mate, napier is enjoying one of his regular visits with his two-year-old son and his son's mother, jessica. >> score a touchdown. >> say touchdown. >> touchdown. >> bradley talks about his dad all of the time. when we pull up and he sees the guard tower he's like, that's daddy's house. inside you're like great he sees
a guard tower and razor wires, he thinks of his dad great. but he's excited to see him. >> the type of one on one between and inmate and his child is rare where visits usually take place in a large common area choked with noise. but nappier's visit is in a playroom. >> the father hood program is great. i get to come in this visiting room and in this visiting room everything is great. it's one on one, me and him running around here playing ball. >> the monthly visits are carefully monitored by the coordinator. >> we have a responsibility is what we're trying to teach them. even though they're in prison that doesn't give them a cop out not to be a dad. >> oh my gosh. >> hey, you're okay, buddy. get up. >> come on.
let me kiss it. go tell daddy to kiss it. say, kiss it. >> you'll be all right, boy. >> mr. napier, go ahead and have a seat. >> following each visit napier undergoes a review. >> let's talk about bradley crying. >> i think, you know, when he starts crying i just tell him bradley get up, you know, you're fine because he's raised be a whole bunch of women, you know, and little boys raised be a whole bunch of women get babied and i don't want my son to grow up getting babied all of the time. i want him to have a little bit of toughness about him. the world is tough. get up you got to go on any way. >> i understand where you're coming from. i want to give you a suggestion. it's okay for him to cry. it's okay for you say that he's okay and then address the situation and move on. it kind of seems that some of
your patterns came from just, okay, quick fix, let's get him on to something else so he stops what he's doing. it's okay to acknowledge that he's crying and find out why he's crying and thn move on from that. you understand what i'm saying. >> yes. >> appreciate you coming in. >> i like to hear the insight on what people think about me as a father. i'm going to give it some thought but i'm a gad father. coming up, william jones says good buy to his mentor and hello to the outside. >> don't come back. >> and leonard mcquay argues for a transfer out of confinement. ♪ welcome back [ male announcer ] it's made with the natural, vine-ripened sweetness of fruit, so you can serve up deliciously sweet treats without all the sugar. so let no drink go unsweetened. no spatula un-licked. and no last bit un-sipped.
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don't even know it, you know. >> as the predawn darkness hangs over indiana's wabash valley correctional facility, most of the 2200 convicted felons housed here were treated to one more day of incarceration. but not williams jones, jr. today after three years he's going home. >> how do you feel today? >> nervous. i'm happy to leave but it sucks to have to leave people in here. >> the one inmate he most hates to leave behind is his close friend and spiritual mentor markus murray who is serving 60 years for murder. >> hey, man. >> it's going to be hard, dude. >> you're going to miss me. you know it. >> i'm not going to miss you. be cool, man. >> all right.
>> while jones spend his final moments in prison, just outside the walls, his older brother casey and casey's family arrive to pick him up. >> me and my brother are pretty close. i'm glad i get to pick him up and not have to leave him here. i've been here like eight different times and had to leave him here. it was hard. >> have a good within. good luck. stay out of here. >> good luck, man. >> feels different. i guess there's nothing like walking out of prison, i guess. >> all right. >> being in jail is not real cool. i don't like it. >> get in there. what's your name? >> jones. >> thank you.
>> get your property and we'll escort you out of here. releasing one from gate two. let's go. >> be right with you, man. >> come on, billy, hundred to me. >> don't come back. i don't want to see you anymore. >> no, i ain't coming back. >> a little bit normal? glad to have you home. let me do the honors. >> man. >> cigarette is in the car. >> can't have it right now. >> take a picture. >> oh man. finally. >> all right.
everybody in. >> yay. >> while jones savers his first moments of freedom, back inside wabash convicted murderer leonard mcquay fights for a different kind of freedom. he has a review hearing with his case manager to determine if he's ready to be released back into general population from administrative segregation. the only world he's known for the past 16 years. >> you're going all the way out with it, ain't you? dog leash and all. >> the prospect of mcquay, the killer of a corrections officer being released back into general population naturally has some staff on edge. >> offender mcquay, he comes off as a very well-spoken, quiet individual. that being said he does have the conduct history with the assault on staff, the murder charge of a member from a priest facility.
even though he comes across as a quiet individual within you always have to keep that in mind when you're dealing with him. >> they so evil now. they're so barbaric, putting all them chains on that guy like that. >> i do not trust him. i treat him with respect, but i do not trust him. >> the last time mcquay had a review with his case manager, beverly gill more, she approved his request for a job. he hopes he can now persuade her that he's ready for general population. >> hey, how are you. >> how are you? >> i got my presentation for my review. >> mr. mcquay, what makes you a good candidate for release from administrative segregation into the offender general population? >> i've engaged in rehabilitation that has allowed know take a retrospective look
not only at my past violent behavior and my new more humbled progressive behavior and i believe that i've made some significant strides in my social relationship with staff. >> all right, leonard, you talk a mighty fine talk. however, how are we to be assured that you actually have soaked this in and believe it down into the bone marrow? >> i'm asking you, mrs. gill mohr and i'm asking the administration here to open your hearts and look at me as a human being who has made some terrible mistakes who has come back from the grave. i'm a new man. and the only way that this new man can shine is that you give me the opportunity. please give me a chance. that's all i need. >> all right.
i will summarize that in statement. >> thank you. all right. >> thank you. >> they got reason to be concerned because of prior incidents associated with me. and the only way they can see that i'm not only a changed man, but i'm ready to do something different with my life is to let me have an opportunity. i haven't had a chance, and that's what i'm hoping for. coming up, marcus murray defends. >> you have a salute like a lot of white supremacists do. >> no, sir. >> and a decision is handed down on leonard mcquay.
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the first picture too. there's the day he was born. i don't know. this [ bleep ]. >> robby mcanally has been in prison a little more than two years. in all that time, he hasn't had a single visit with his 3-year-old son. recent contact with the child's mother had given him hope that a visit might be imminent. but now the child's mother represented in a tattoo on his arm has changed her plans. >> [ bleep ] her. she been talking about for the past two and a half months now i'm going to bring trey down there. i'm going to bring trey down there. now all of a sudden, miss you're too busy. i think i'm going to turn her into a clown, bro. >> don't do that. >> i will turn her into a clown. >> you just talking [ bleep ]. he loves that girl. >> i do love her but she ain't work a [ bleep ]. >> later, mcanally revealed one possible reason why the mother
of his child has not followed through on visits. he said it was an incident that happened before he returned to prison. something he rarely talks about. >> it was a domestic battery. i haven't seen him since then. yeah. that's the last time i seen him was the night that happened. >> mcanally can only accept the consequences of his actions and do little to control developments with those he's left behind on the outside. but today marcus murray is hoping to make a big change on the inside. >> how you doing? >> hi. >> he filed a grievance to have asatru removed from the list of security threat groups or gangs. today security threat group coordinator robby marshall and jack hendricks have granted murray a hearing on the matter. >> if you were in a leadership position and you saw someone come into your community or into your services with ill will or intent to participate in a
security threat group activity, what would you take on that be? >> i would tell them to go back from wens they came. there is no reason to bring ill well. if one person is sick in the group, then we're all sick. and if you're in the community, you have a say so. and if it's anything that's kind of controversial, it does get voted on. >> can you elaborate on that a little bit? >> let's say somebody had a new idea for how we salute each other or something like that. >> you say salute. are you talking about greeting someone? >> yeah, like particular hand shakes or something. you know, like as a fraternity, people like to set themselves apart. >> you stated that you or your community have a greeting that you refer to as a salute. could you show me that what refers to? >> no, i never said that. >> no, no -- >> well, you mean we say something.
we say hail sa. which means hello and good health. >> so you weren't referring to a gesture. >> no, no, no. >> a hand or body language or anything like that. kind of like a lot of white supremacists do when they do the hitler salute. >> no, sir. >> i guess i have one major question here. what is your input on other races joining your community? >> we will discriminate against no one regardless of race, gender, sex, creed, nationality, origin, or of their religion. we won't discriminate from that. >> you have a minority in a leadership ro el? >> we haven't. >> if that opportunity arose, would that be allow snd. >> yes, it would. >> do you have any other questions? >> no, not today. >> do you have any questions for us? >> i don't. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> the final decision could still be weeks off. but the wait is over for leonard mcquay. prison officials have denied his request to be moved back to general population. >> he seems like he has
everything in the world going for him, but when you really sit down and you really listen off the unit, when he thinks that you can't hear him talking, some of the things that he talks about negative toward staff, when a staff person was assaulted by another offender in another cell house, he was applauding. so that's a telltale sign that he is not ready to go into the general population. >> i don't want to lose my mind like this. i don't want to physically begin to deteriorate where i can't get no help. so i'm saying i want to actually be given an opportunity to do something progressive with my life. back here in solitary confinement, i can't do that.